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| i sent this irdial last night, about 4 or 5 am. he said i should post it here. the reason i didn't originally is because everything i've written recently seems to have come out wrong. anyway here you go... --- http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1544000/1544565.stm along with dennis skinner's and jack straw's. i'm scared. this whole thing is so frightening, i know america / the allies / nato are bombing people all over the region. maybe a worse atrocity is the lack of coverage on western media. perhaps then people could understand it. that's not what i'm scared of. i'm scared of america. of what bush can, and will do. of what blair will do to save face, to lick the arse of this seemingly illiterate head of state... maybe i'm in the wrong, i have no problem with dialect or idiosyncrasies but i think the language he uses is just a bit inappropriate for someone of his position. maybe i'm too much the traditionalist. i guess bomb strikes are now inevitable. what will they achieve though? in fact, rewind. WHERE is the evidence that bin Laden is involved in all this? a piece in yesterday's Guardian pointed out that the us government had not released any evidence pointing towards him. it seems to me that they are using this as an all too timely and convenient excuse to go after "those folks" that they have been chasing for a while. sadam, ossama, and any of the other innumerable arabian undesirables. today on the bbc i heard of one us politician saying that using this as an excuse to get sadam hussein as well would ease tension in the region. huh? i'm not sure of the whole history of the region, but i know the arab isreali conflict was kick started by britain's crap handle of events pre and post wwII. they were given control of isreal, which was then an arab country and they promptly fucked things up. telling the jewish refugees they'd be allowed "back" into the "motherland" (this was generations since they had exiled due to previous grievances) whilst telling the palestinians that they wouldn't allow any jews in. or maybe it was 10,000 and they ended up letting 100,000 in. i have forgotten, i am crap and this was in my gcse's a good four years ago... anyway, we also learnt about hailee selassie and the general arabian feeling towards the west even then... add to this libya, iran, iraq and all of the west's combined efforts at destroying these people's lives and you have a situation that breeds anti american feeling without the need for the assassination of someone who is looked upon as a hero. i thought assassination was outlawed anyway. i realise that the taliban and sadam hussein aren't the most humanitarian of dictators, but i still feel there would be a lot of unrest if they were to be bombed and hunted. and looking at america's history of witch hunts they are hardly short and sharp. it will be a long messy campaign against these invisible enemies. with heavy losses on both sides. mainly the civilian side though. i expect a few tv stations, pharmaceutical companies and maybe even some schools will be "surgically" targeted by cruise missiles. but i'll doubt that even if 10 x the amount of damage, both physical or human, is done against the arab states it will cause a fuss in america... this is all over the place and doesn't make sense. i'm tired, and just writing things as they appear. excuse me. like i said. i'm scared. so if it does trigger a war. where do we stand? where do i stand? 20 years old. a degree student. therefore one can assume intelligent. possibly not the fittest or strongest person in the world, but with the right training i could be beefed up. maybe i could learn to fly a jet? i've seen the end of the rebellion many times from the cockpit of my TIE fighter and i'm sure they could lock me in a room with MS FS2001 and i'd be qualified in no time. but would i want to fight? no. why? because i'm a coward. i'm also a pacifist of some sort. i never want the blood of someone else on my hands, no matter how remotely. i don't believe in this war either. but then again, that could just be me being a coward. so then. i could stand up and be a conscientious objector. wear my white feather and put up with the abuse i would undoubtedly get from those too old or young to fight, but perhaps they believe it is right... with a little forethought and practise i may even be able to stand my ground in a debate, with well developed reasoning... i could go further, i could join some sort of resistance. a digital guerilla. i could use my skills to produce anti war propaganda. websites, posters, magazines, leaflets. educate people about why i wouldn't want to fight and what can be done to pressurise the government to resort to more diplomatic means... it seems from [irdial's] last post to blogdial, that people are already mobilizing in their own ways, compiling lists of crypto resources. hastily burning stuff on the net onto cdrs... i guess the outbreak of war could severely cripple the internet. even though that is why it was designed in the first place. what i mean is the government could somehow enforce strict censorship in a kind of "careless talk costs lives" style campaign. if the fbi are using carnivore already, and the ARS are recording all mobile phone calls private communication methods will be harder to come across. and yet if we are going to fight against the war mongers over the internet we will need all the help we can. perhaps i'm being far too excitable about this whole thing, belive me i'm not looking forward to anything right now. i hope somehow this can bubble over. not that it will happen, maybe the taliban will get scared, hand over bin Laden and then dissolve with a little us help... the us will be happy, they have their man. they always get their man. and "peace" will be restored to the middle east... anyway.. if this does happen/ you will be the first i turn to i guess. i trust you, you seem to talk sense a lot of the time. but maybe you are just the old man in the shop in my 1984... i am hoping you will know where to turn to if this all goes wrong. posted by alex tea 1:13 PM |
| hello everyone, I hope you are as well as you can be, I got a couple of things I'd like to say.... I am getting sick of seeing so called experts whose only purpose seems to be to express the excitement of being able to be on every news broadcast and say "thats it - last Tuesday the world changed" like its a highpoint in their illustrious career of giving non expert information. On this front the media really does have to hold its head in shame. Every popular peak time news show refuses to really discuss the root of the problem and make people more aware of what the actual situation is and, more importantly, what caused it - its just war this war that - I feel like I'm watching the day today (a parody of news programs if you've not seen it). And this is the very problem. As people now start to attack innocents because they may have a passing resemblance to someone of arabic nature, the true nature of what we are dealing with comes out. You know I read a cab driver in the UK is now paralysed from the neck down because of an argument about fares, in which the fools who perpetrated the crime used the recent attacks in the USA as good reason for their attack. Not only is using recent atrocities as a mask for your own personal defects a sickening path to follow, it also shows just the sheer level of ignorance that is faced in trying to resolve this situation - are these people any better than the people on the plane? If we are at war then we are not at war with terrorists we are at war with stupidity - with the stupid behaviour that started this, with the stupid behaviour that perpetuates this and with the stupid people who want to remain stupid. Even in our civil society that has access to information so you can educate yourself, people choose to ignore and act like I don't know what, yet jump up and say we are better than you, we know best, our way is right. People talking about winning? Someone tell me what can be won here? Apart from an awakening to realising that this cycle of idiocy and anger must change I don't believe much - certainly no war. I look sometimes at the people in power and the popularity words that come out of their mouth and just am taken aback by their sheer irresponsibility. I don't know what's right, and I'm certainly not about to say its easy, but surely something must change. I don't know, maybe now isn't the time for the above. I'd like to say though that this site and the people who are contributing to it have written and said some of the most enlightening and appropriate material concerning this subject. It seems odd to have to say, but I really appreciate the fact I have access to it and that I have been able to share thoughts and words with people who know how to use their brains - at these points it makes a difference. ++++++be well all of you++++++++ posted by Paul Sherlock 11:07 AM |
| In response to Tuesday's terrorist attacks, Clear Channel, the world's largest radio network, has sent out a list of some 150 "lyrically questionable" songs by everyone from the Animals to the Zombies to its radio stations, recommending that the songs not be aired. Some songs are overtly violent in their intent, but the majority simply contain metaphorical language or narrative aspects that connect uncomfortably with the tragedy. http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/songs.html Clear Channel's List of Songs with Questionable Lyrics Artist - Title posted by Irdial Discs 10:32 AM |
| Monday, September 17, 2001 |
| From: Michael Moore Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 6:10 AM Subject: [Mike's Message] Death, Downtown Death, Downtown Dear friends, I was supposed to fly today on the 4:30 PM American Airlines flight from LAX to JFK. But tonight I find myself stuck in L.A. with an incredible range of emotions over what has happened on the island where I work and live in New York City. My wife and I spent the first hours of the day -- after being awakened by phone calls from our parents at 6:40am PT -- trying to contact our daughter at school in New York and our friend JoAnn who works near the World Trade Center. I called JoAnn at her office. As someone picked up, the first tower imploded, and the person answering the phone screamed and ran out, leaving me no clue as to whether or not she or JoAnn would live. It was a sick, horrible, frightening day. On December 27, 1985 I found myself caught in the middle of a terrorist incident at the Vienna airport -- which left 30 people dead, both there and at the Rome airport. (The machine-gunning of passengers in each city was timed to occur at the same moment.) I do not feel like discussing that event tonight because it still brings up too much despair and confusion as to how and why I got to live... a fluke, a mistake, a few feet on the tarmac, and I am still here, there but for the grace of... Safe. Secure. I'm an American, living in America. I like my illusions. I walk through a metal detector, I put my carry-ons through an x-ray machine, and I know all will be well. Here's a short list of my experiences lately with airport security: * At the Newark Airport, the plane is late at boarding everyone. The counter can't find my seat. So I am told to just "go ahead and get on" -- without a ticket! * At Detroit Metro Airport, I don't want to put the lunch I just bought at the deli through the x-ray machine so, as I pass through the metal detector, I hand the sack to the guard through the space between the detector and the x-ray machine. I tell him "It's just a sandwich." He believes me and doesn't bother to check. The sack has gone through neither security device. * At LaGuardia in New York, I check a piece of luggage, but decide to catch a later plane. The first plane leaves without me, but with my bag -- no one knowing what is in it. * Back in Detroit, I take my time getting off the commuter plane. By the time I have come down its stairs, the bus that takes the passengers to the terminal has left -- without me. I am alone on the tarmac, free to wander wherever I want. So I do. Eventually, I flag down a pick-up truck and an airplane mechanic gives me a ride the rest of the way to the terminal. * I have brought knives, razors; and once, my traveling companion brought a hammer and chisel. No one stopped us. Of course, I have gotten away with all of this because the airlines consider my safety SO important, they pay rent-a-cops $5.75 an hour to make sure the bad guys don't get on my plane. That is what my life is worth -- less than the cost of an oil change. Too harsh, you say? Well, chew on this: a first-year pilot on American Eagle (the commuter arm of American Airlines) receives around $15,000 a year in annual pay. That's right -- $15,000 for the person who has your life in his hands. Until recently, Continental Express paid a little over $13,000 a year. There was one guy, an American Eagle pilot, who had four kids so he went down to the welfare office and applied for food stamps -- and he was eligible! Someone on welfare is flying my plane? Is this for real? Yes, it is. So spare me the talk about all the precautions the airlines and the FAA is taking. They, like all businesses, are concerned about one thing -- the bottom line and the profit margin. Four teams of 3-5 people were all able to penetrate airport security on the same morning at 3 different airports and pull off this heinous act? My only response is -- that's all? Well, the pundits are in full diarrhea mode, gushing on about the "terrorist threat" and today's scariest dude on planet earth -- Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo jets with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path? Or am I being asked to believe that there were four religious/political fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled airline pilots who JUST HAPPENED to want to kill themselves today? Maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause -- but FOUR? Ok, maybe you can -- I don't know. What I do know is that all day long I have heard everything about this bin Laden guy except this one fact -- WE created the monster known as Osama bin Laden! Where did he go to terrorist school? At the CIA! Don't take my word for it -- I saw a piece on MSNBC last year that laid it all out. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the CIA trained him and his buddies in how to commits acts of terrorism against the Soviet forces. It worked! The Soviets turned and ran. Bin Laden was grateful for what we taught him and thought it might be fun to use those same techniques against us. We abhor terrorism -- unless we're the ones doing the terrorizing. We paid and trained and armed a group of terrorists in Nicaragua in the 1980s who killed over 30,000 civilians. That was OUR work. You and me. Thirty thousand murdered civilians and who the hell even remembers! We fund a lot of oppressive regimes that have killed a lot of innocent people, and we never let the human suffering THAT causes to interrupt our day one single bit. We have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the world, with our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in Chile, in Vietnam, in Gaza, in Salvador) that I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised when those orphans grow up and are a little whacked in the head from the horror we have helped cause. Yet, our recent domestic terrorism bombings have not been conducted by a guy from the desert but rather by our own citizens: a couple of ex-military guys who hated the federal government. From the first minutes of today's events, I never heard that possibility suggested. Why is that? Maybe it's because the A-rabs are much better foils. A key ingredient in getting Americans whipped into a frenzy against a new enemy is the all-important race card. It's much easier to get us to hate when the object of our hatred doesn't look like us. Congressmen and Senators spent the day calling for more money for the military; one Senator on CNN even said he didn't want to hear any more talk about more money for education or health care -- we should have only one priority: our self-defense. Will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure when the rest of the world isn't living in poverty so we can have nice running shoes? In just 8 months, Bush gets the whole world back to hating us again. He withdraws from the Kyoto agreement, walks us out of the Durban conference on racism, insists on restarting the arms race -- you name it, and Baby Bush has blown it all. The Senators and Congressmen tonight broke out in a spontaneous version of "God Bless America." They're not a bad group of singers! Yes, God, please do bless us. Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush! Why kill them? Why kill anyone? Such insanity... Let's mourn, let's grieve, and when it's appropriate let's examine our contribution to the unsafe world we live in. It doesn't have to be like this... Yours, Michael Moore posted by ha ly 9:20 PM |
| Cryptome and a host of other crypto resources are likely to be shutdown if the war panic continues. What methods could be used to assure continued access to crypto for homeland and self-defense by citizens of all nations against communication transgressors? A while back a list of global sites for accessing crypto and privacy tools was set up: http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm This list of crypto sources, and additions to it, should be mirrored and the mirrors widely publicized to aid citizen access to tools for personal and homeland protection worldwide from those urging war and terrorism at home and around the globe. To supplement that, Cryptome would appreciate hearing by encrypted mail (anonymous remail too) what others have done or could do to stockpile and distribute self-dense tools. We've sent out a few hundred CDs of the Cryptome collection, and are considering offering here a ~100MB compressed package of the ~8000 files. If so, we would first make more of the packages available to other global sites to offset our bandwidth limitations. There are only a few crypto programs in the files, mostly PGP since 2.62. We might grab more for inclusion unless others are doing that. To comply with law we'd have to notify BXA of any new program offerings. Responses welcome: jya@pipeline.com Pipeline.com is owned by Earthlink, one of the ISPs reportedly now intercepted by Carnivore; Verio, host of this site, may be as well, your hosts too. John Young PK below. posted by Irdial Discs 6:51 PM |
| Check it, the tide anti war sentiment is growing. WW3 has been looming on the horizon for years; its only now that a hot enough match has been found that will ignite it. No thanks. no to war, no to unfairness, taboo subjects, lies and favouritism. posted by Irdial Discs 6:25 PM |
I know that all people who post on Blogdial know this; its posted here for the record / for your use. posted by Irdial Discs 6:11 PM |
| Who do you want to fight today? AFGHANISTAN * Afghan Guerilla Groups and Northern Alliance ALGERIA * Armée Islamique du Salut (AIS) ANGOLA * Frente de Libertação do Enclave de Cabinda-Renovada (FLEC-R), Frente de Libertação do Enclave de Cabinda-Forças Armadas Cabindesas (FLEC-FAC) and Frente Democrática de Cabinda (FDC) * People's Extra Parliamentary Opposition (VAPO) and Bavarian Liberation Army (BLA) BAHRAIN * Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain (IFLB), Movement for the Liberation of Bahrain (MLB) and Hizbullah-Gulf/Bahrain BANGLADESH * Shanti Bahini BELGIUM * Cellules Communistes Combattantes (CCC) BHUTAN * Ethnic Nepalese Rebels BOLIVIA * Ejercito de Liberación Nacional (ELN) BURUNDI * Forces pour la Défense de la Démocratie (FDD), Parti pour la Libération du Peuple Hutu (PLPH), Forces Nationales de Libération (FNL) and Front de Libération Nationale (Frolina) CAMBODIA * Khmer Rouge * Front de Libération du Quebec (FLQ) CHAD * Forces Armées pour la République Fédérale (FARF) CHILE * Frente Patriotico Manuel Rodriguez (FPMR) CHINA, PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC * Tibetan separatists COLOMBIA * Ejercito de Liberación Nacional (ELN) CONGO, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC * Mouvement de liberation Congolais (MLC) DJIBOUTI * Front for the Restoration of Unity and Democracy (FRUD) ECUADOR * Alfaro Vive, Carajo (AVC) EGYPT * Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (GAI or GI) EL SALVADOR * Frente Farabundo Marti de Liberación Nacional (FMLN) ERITREA * Eritrean Islamic Jihad-Revolution Council (EIJ-RC) ETHIOPIA * Al-Ittihad al-Islami FRANCE * Action Directe (AD) * Abkhazia rebels * Revolutionaere Zellen (RZ) GREECE * Epanastaiki Organosi 17 Noemvri (RO-17) * Unidad Revolucionaria Nacional Guatemalteca (URNG) HONDURAS * Cinchonero Movimiento Popular de Liberación (MPL) INDIA * Ananda Marg INDONESIA * Frente Revolucionária Timorense de Libertação e Independência (Fretilin) IRAN * Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan (DPIK) and the Kurdish Communist Party of Iran * Al-Dawa al-Islamiya ISRAEL * Abu Nidal Organisation (ANO) ITALY * Brigate Rosse (BR) JAPAN * Aum Shinrikyo LAOS * United Lao National Liberation Front (ULNLF) * Amal (Hope), Hizbullah (Party of God) and South Lebanon Army (SLA) * National Patriotic Front of Liberia (NPFL) LIBYA * Fighting Islamic Group in Libya (FIGL), Islamic Movement of Martyrs, Libyan Jihad Movement and Islamic Movement for Change MACEDONIA * Ethnic Albanian Separatists * Front Populaire de Libération de l'Azaouad (FPLA) MEXICO * Ejercito Revolucionario del Pueblo Insurgente (ERPI) MOROCCO * Frente Popular Para la Liberación de Sakiet el Hamra y Río de Oro (Polisario) MYANMAR (BURMA) * Burmese rebels NAMIBIA * Caprivi Liberation Army (CLA) NEPAL * Nepalese Rebels NIGER * Armée Révolutionnaire de Libération du Nord-Niger (ARLN) and Organisation de la Résistance (ORA) PAKISTAN * Baluch People's Liberation Front (BPLF), Baluch Students' Organisation-Awami (BSO-A) and Popular Front for Armed Resistance (PFAR) PAPUA NEW GUINEA * Bougainville Revolutionary Army (BRA) * Movimiento Revolucionario Tupac Amaru (MRTA) * Abu Sayyaf * Chechen Guerrillas * Interahamwe SAUDI ARABIA * Islamic Jihad in Hejaz, Islamic Revolutionary Organisation, Movement for Islamic Change, Tigers of the Gulf, Legion of the Martyr Abdullah al-Huzaifi, Hizbullah Gulf, Brethren (Battalions) of the Faithful, Islamic Peninsula Movement for Change - Jihad Wing, Jamaat al-Adala al-Alamiya and Fighting Ansar of Allah SENEGAL * Mouvement des Forces Démocratiques de la Casamance (MFDC) SIERRA LEONE * Revolutionary United Front (RUF) SOLOMON ISLANDS * Malaita Eagles and Isatambu Freedom Fighters (IFF) SOMALIA * United Somali Congress (USC) SOUTH AFRICA * Afrikaaner Weestand Beweeging (AWB, Afrikaaner Resistance Movement) and Boer Attack Troops SPAIN * Euzkadi Ta Askatasuna (ETA) SRI LANKA * Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna (JVP) SUDAN * South Sudan Independence Movement (SSIM) SYRIA * (Syrian) Muslim Brotherhood * Islamic Renaissance Party (IRP) THAILAND * Pattani United Liberation Organisation (PULO) * Hizb el Nahda, Islamic Liberation Party and Islamic Tendency Movement TURKEY * Armenian Liberation Army (ALA), Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) and Justice Commandos of the Armenian Genocide (JCAG) UGANDA * Allied Democratic Forces (ADF) UNITED KINGDOM * Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) UNITED STATES OF AMERICA * Ku Klux Klan * Movimiento de Liberación Nacional (MLN) YEMEN * Aden-Abyan Islamic Army YUGOSLAVIA, FEDERAL REPUBLIC * National Movement for the Liberation of Kosovo and the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) posted by Claus Eggers Sørensen 9:02 AM |
| Sunday, September 16, 2001 |
| Barrie — Tamim's write-up can be found at this link >> http://crucial-systems.com/ there's more up-to-date info for anyone living in new york city and wanting to volunteer or donate. posted by ha ly 3:39 PM |
| Both sides of the calendar debate were wrong; the new century began on 11 September 2001. All day I fielded phone calls from reporters looking for the "computer security angle" to the story. I couldn't find one, although I expect several to come out of the aftermath. Calls for increased security began immediately. Unfortunately, the quickest and easy way to satisfy those demands is by decreasing liberties. This is always short sighted; real security solutions exist that preserve the free society that we all hold dear, but they're harder to find and require reasoned debate. Strong police forces without Constitutional limitations might appeal to those wanting immediate safety, but the reality is the opposite. Laws that limit police power can increase security, by enforcing honesty, integrity, and fairness. It is our very liberties that make our society as safe as it is. In times of crisis it's easy to disregard these liberties or, worse, to actively attack them and stigmatize those who support them. We've already seen government proposals for increased wiretapping capabilities and renewed rhetoric about encryption limitations. I fully expect more automatic surveillance of ordinary citizens, limits on information flow and digital-security technologies, and general xenophobia. I do not expect much debate about their actual effectiveness, or their effects on freedom and liberty. It's easier just to react. In 1996, TWA Flight 800 exploded and crashed in the Atlantic. Originally people thought it was a missile attack. The FBI demanded, and Congress passed, a law giving law enforcement greater abilities to expel aliens from the country. Eventually we learned the crash was caused by a mechanical malfunction, but the law still stands. We live in a world where nation states are not the only institutions which wield power. International bodies, corporations, non-governmental organizations, pan-national ethnicities, and disparate political groups all have the ability to affect the world in an unprecedented manner. As we adjust to this new reality, it is important that we don't become the very forces we abhor. I consider the terrorist attacks on September 11th to be an attack against America's ideals. If our freedoms erode because of those attacks, then the terrorists have won. The ideals we uphold during a crisis define who we are. Freedom and liberty have a price, and that price is constant vigilance so it not be taken from us in the name of security. Ben Franklin said something that was often repeated during the American Revolutionary War: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." It is no less true today. From Cryptome, Sept 15 2001 posted by Irdial Discs 12:05 PM |
| MP George Galloway was, whilst explaing to the dim witted Adam Bolton on Sky news the REASONING behind this atrocity, was abruptly cut off by the Sky News vision controllers. There will be no debate. There will be no reason. There will be no withdrawl from the affairs of the Middle East. There will only be WAR and INSANITY and STUPIDITY, BLINDNESS, LIES and counting of the dead. posted by Irdial Discs 12:01 PM |
| Thanks Barrie. I'm going doing that, it's just that it will be a while before packages start shipping overseas from here in the US. I was hoping that I might be able to dig up the MP3'd before then. Ah well, I guess it's just more time for me to bone up on making Mariopaint music. Thanks! posted by bohus blahut 5:24 AM |
| bohus - most of Irdial's discs are out of print. Send Irdial 3 blank cdrs and a small fee to get all releases on the A212 in mp3 format. Very good writeup from Tanim. Very, very good. Is it on a webpage anywhere so I can show my un-blogial friends? posted by Barrie Sutcliffe 3:50 AM |
| ok...what da fuck? some kind of sick joke? http://members.tripod.com/therev67/wtc/index.htm posted by ha ly 3:05 AM |
| Saturday, September 15, 2001 |
| Subject: Fwd: WWIII? Date:Sat, 15 Sep 2001 04:37:20 -0400 Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. He is also one of the most brilliant people I know in this life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in. -GT I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? Tamim Ansary posted by ha ly 10:35 PM |
| Hello all. This is my first post to the Irdial list. Since the sober events in New York, it's hard to think of anything else- but I do have a few lighter questions that I'd like to ask here. First of all, how do I pronounce the name of the label? Is it "err-dyall", "eye ar die all" or what? Second, I've got a couple of Irdial's releases already from a friend's recent visit to Aquarius records in SF USA. I'd like to get the Mariopaint record, but it will be a while due to suspension of airmail shipments from suppliers here ins the US and abroad. There is much mention on the Irdial website of the avialability of their music library as MP3's on the net, but I haven't found any of them yet... and this is after several searches on both Gnutella and Napster. Can any of you point me in the right direction? I'm working on some Mariopaint music of my own, and I could definitely use some inspiration. Thanks. posted by bohus blahut 6:54 PM |
| Daily Telegraph "The World Trade Centre outrage was co-ordinated on the internet, without question. If Washington is serious in its determination to eliminate terrorism, it will have to forbid internet providers to allow the transmission of encrypted messages - now encoded by public key ciphers that are unbreakable even by the National Security Agency's computers - and close down any provider that refuses to comply. Uncompliant providers on foreign territory should expect their buildings to be destroyed by cruise missiles. Once the internet is implicated in the killing of Americans, its high-rolling days may be reckoned to be over." posted by Irdial Discs 8:33 AM |
| Anyone watching the special debate in the UK Parliament yesterday would have been amazed at some of the outbursts; Dennis Skinner made the most absurd statement, to the effect,"..should the UK government be riding on the coat-tails of an American president, who whilst the firefighters were standing ten feet tall, was cowering in a bunker?" One MP called for the mandatory issuing of ID cards for all UK citizens, as well as "mandatory genetic profiling of all UK citizens", "so that we can follow these people where ever they go, from safe house to safehouse". Yet another asked if the government would be preparing to invoke its special wartime measures allowing it to round up potential enemies living in the UK. Think about it; this will HAVE to happen if the UK decides it is going to "stand shoulder to shoulder" with the USA when it bombs, for example, XXXXXXX. They will, as the americans rounded up all people with "Japanese ancestry" in WW2, round up all citizens of XXXXXXX because they will be seen as potential threats. If however, there is no bombing, this will not be an issue. 40 billion Dollars has been freed up by congress to prosecute this battle, after "the Pearl Harbor of World War 3". It would be the correct move to simply NOT go to war, as it will only possibly CAUSE WW3 to start, solve nothing, create more hate and disorder and a destruciton of our already eroding freedom. George Gallawy, made the only sensible speech during the debate. He has never been listened to, and of course, his words fell on deaf ears today. He said, and these are not ver batim but they are close, "10,000 Bin Ladens will be created if we bomb any country that we believe is involved in this atrocity"..."if 5000 people were killed in this attack, then that is the same number of people that have died EVERY MONTH in Iraq in the 10 years since the end of the Gulf War". No one wants to address the root problem in this, and it has nothing to do with timing and respect for the dead. It's a symptom of the wests refusal to play fair, its refusal to apply the same standards to everybody that it does to itself. If it cannot do this, then it should take its marbles home and go and play with the people it feels equal to. Jack Straw engaged in a "told you so" tirade saying that, "the extra powers for the security services and police that we asked for were in proportion to the "terrorist threat", as we said". This is par for the course from him. Everyone is angry, scared and ill. Aparently in France, there are two kilometer lines for Diesel in advance of shortages due to forthcoming military action. This could have all been avoided if the UN was a fair place, which it is demonstably not. Now we are being dragged into a fully blown war, at a time when we should be thinking about everything else BUT war. This is the fault of the UN, who, as the last place a country can turn to for justice, failed miserably to apply its resolutions evenly, failed miserably to heed the calls for help from the countries that were suffering, failed to stop the USA controlling the amazingly undemocratic and unrepresentative Security Council.....which of you will be called up to fight in this? and where will you run to to avoid sucking in some depleted uranium dust, taking an experimental anti biological warfair coctail or just getting killed? posted by Irdial Discs 8:17 AM |
| Don't know why I'm posting this, but I just decided to get rid of a lot (50) old warez CDs that no longer matter to me. Anyone know what I can do with the CDs, or what I can do with the cases, in terms of recycling or whatever? Oh, and I don't think I've expressed my anger and sadness over the terrorist attacks but... I don't think I need to say anything. I feel like anyone else here does. I got a CD the other day called "Image/Negation" (add french accents) by Alexandre St. Onge. Very nice minimal ambient and even some glitchwork on the last track. Quite a lovely little disc. Strange thing is that it didn't come in any real sort of packaging... just a clear jewel case, no artwork on the CD, but in the jewel case is a six inch length of thick insulated copper wire. Half of it has the plastic casing stripped off. Really bizarre. I'd also like to point out how fast one can become a real money-wise person once they get into university. Everything's tight, even if I'm not in as tight a spot as many other students. I've become very... spendy, very selectively buying things... damn textbooks cost me 350 dollars alone. School is going good so far, very exhausting. I'm usually up at 5:30 in the morning and don't get home until 6:00 in the evening. Art school is pretty darned intensive, dag gummit. I'm enjoying myself, though. Lots and lots of girls too... wee woo haw haw haw! posted by Barrie Sutcliffe 7:34 AM |
| Thursday, September 13, 2001 |
Doesn't it seem just a little odd, a little too good to be true, that perpetrators would leave arabic posted by Anthony Manning 11:47 AM |
| "CNN reported on television broadcast earlier today that the NSA was now going through volumes of recorded cellular calls for calls made by passengers on the planes." Someone at the NSA has made a slip of the tounge; this is an admission that they have recordings of all cellular telephone calls made in the USA! posted by Irdial Discs 11:46 AM |
| "LET'S BE PERSONAL" Broadcast June 5, 1973, CFRB, Toronto, Ontario Topic: "The Americans" The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth. As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did. They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped. The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans. I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes. Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here. When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke. This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over… has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped. posted by Irdial Discs 11:36 AM |
| "Taliban Plead for Mercy to the Miserable in a Land of Nothing" http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/international/asia/13AFGH.html i cannot understand nor can i relate to the conditions in which this nation is living under on a daily basis... but I live in downtown manhattan...therefore, i cannot comprehend any other suffering beyond what has taken place here in my own backyard. to see the zombie-like ashen faces of witnesses walking uptown past me only a few hours after the tragedy, and to ride past massive queues of family and friends looking for missing loved ones in front of 3 major hospitals on my way to work... its hard to think beyond this neighborhood. for the first time in my 24 years of living...i feel UNSAFE. this isnt an image on the tv screen in which i can turn off when i need to run off to the bar to meet friends... its something i need only to face south to be reminded by the massive gray body of smoke, steam, and asbestos-ridden dust that there is a mass grave of innocent civilians buried only a 30-minute walk from my apartment... posted by ha ly 4:48 AM |
| Wednesday, September 12, 2001 |
| "The American cowboys are reaping the fruit of their crimes against humanity." posted by Irdial Discs 6:36 PM |
| "Ananova are reporting that just hours after the terrorist attack on New York, the FBI started approaching ISPs asking for help in installing Carnivore." posted by Irdial Discs 6:24 PM |
| Incredibly, something that we all knew was “do-able” but never though would happen, has happened. The words that have come after this sickening outrage have been as predictable as they are useless. Much fighting talk, talk of steel, talk of resolve, and speech saying that this will “not change us or our direction.” Oh dear. Everything in this sad matter boils down to a choice. The UK and USA need to decide if they want to live a life of plenty and peace, or live a life of poverty, fear, uncertainty and death. The Swiss live a life of security, privacy, wealth and harmony. They are respected the world over. The people of the Netherlands have an extremely high standard of living, no enemies abroad, and the kind of security that the British only dream about. The Japanese, whilst not particularly loved by the generation of WW2, have had unprecedented growth, admiration, peace and prosperity. A choice needs to be made. Are the “superpowers” going to continue to foot the bill financially and psychologically of trying to civilize the rest of the world, or are they going to turn their backs on these people who are clearly so different from them that it is impossible to make any kind of human connection other than the most superficial changing of monies and false diplomatic gestures. America and Britain have many problems that need to be resolved; poverty, economic deterioration, dwindling and ageing populations, decaying infrastructures. These problems need the urgent attention of the people in their respective governments. The Middle East, and all of its irresolvable problems are not and should not be the responsibility of anyone but the people who live there. The west should look inwards, and turn away from these insane people once and for all; water always finds its lowest level, and the Middle East problems are being artificially bolstered by repeated, expensive and counterproductive intervention by foreign governments. The problems that have caused this attack are similar to the ones that America faced in the era of prohibition. A small religious minority caused the enactment of the prohibition laws. These insane, ant-freedom laws were the sole cause of the birth of organized crime in the USA, and we have been suffering the consequences of these laws ever since. The Middle East problems are exactly the same. Wrong-headed international policy has caused the USA to be the number one despised country on the planet. The problems of America and the Middle East are not going to be stopped by “defeating terrorism”, or “defeating evil”, but by changing the systemic problems that are the root cause of all the woes that are increasingly afflicting the USA. We need to do the modern equivalent of erasing the prohibition laws; this means extricating ourselves from anything to do with Middle East politics and people. It means driving out those embassies that hail from countries that do not comply 100% with UN resolutions and regulations. It means stopping all monies that are given away freely to all countries. It means a total and absolute isolation from the people who insist on living in a way that is not our way. I believe that these people have every right to live as they choose, under whatever type government that they like. It is not our place to tell anyone or any government what they should and should not do. If they should choose to live in a style that is not suited to us, then they must be separate from us, in every way shape and form. They should have their own UN, their own organizations, their own emergency systems that are totally separate from ours, run by and for them, and for which they have to foot 100% of the bill. We should not sing with them. We should not play sports with them, neither visit their lands or allow them to visit us. We should not teach them or sell them our technology. We need to be absolutely and completely separate from these people. They should not be able to use our phone systems, nor our satellite navigation systems; nothing that belongs to us. Let them create their own infrastructure from scratch. If the west turns inwards, and spends its saved billions on its own problems, we will live lives of unprecedented prosperity, as have all countries that have diminished their waste spending. We must however, keep “final course of action” defense systems in place, and there should be only one possible response from these systems, should any member of the west be attacked. We have to take this approach because it is extremely expensive to maintain and equip armies. This is an expense that we should not be compelled to make for the sake of people who are uncivilized and hell bent on suicide. It is the maintenance of these huge military budgets that keeps parts of the UK and USA in what the UN classifies as absolute poverty. The one response is this: if you attack us, you loose everything. Period. Bill Clinton enacted terrible legislation as a reaction to the original World Trade Center bombing. You can expect similar removals of our God given rights from this president as a reaction to this despicable and unnecessary act. As I have said before on this list, this is the worst side effect of terrorism after the deaths of the victims; knee jerk legislation that removes freedoms from the innocent population, and causes evermore internal friction. At the time of writing, it is not known who carried out this act of mass murder. “Make no mistake” it is far from clear who was responsible, and if this was another internal attack, more draconian legislation and restrictions on the American population will only make matters worse. America needs to roll back the part that government plays in its citizen’s lives to what it was in the 1920’s (without throwing away the social advances that make America work better). This is the only action that will restore the internal harmony that is missing inside America, it’s the only thing that will restore confidence in the federal government, the thing that will cause the four million militia men to go back to regular lives. Combined with a complete withdrawal from interfering in the affairs of other countries, America will finally be able to be at peace with itself, and with the rest of the world. It will be a dynamic, non –coo-coo-clock Switzerland, with all of the advantages of that fine nation, plus the advantage of American dynamism, flair and know how. The alternative is a total erosion of all the freedoms that the founding fathers fought and died for, an escalation of atrocities, outrages and hatred, more wars, and most importantly, a missed opportunity to lead by example. Those countries that believe what we believe should join with us in turning our backs on the barbarians. Together, the security of the western nations is stronger, bound by common ideals, goals and a love of freedom and the value of human life, a block of free countries will be able to trade with each other and thrive. The rest of the world will fall into savagery, and we should not feel bad about this, because it is precisely what they desire. If a descent into savagery were not what they desired, then all of these lands would have settled into stable places of order, prosperity and human dignity many years ago. They want war. They want to hate. It is up to us to decide whether we want to continue to consume them and their hatred, or whether we will eat another, more pleasant dish. One thing is for certain; no change in policy is the worst possible decision, leading inevitably to the worse possible outcome. posted by Irdial Discs 6:10 PM |
| The goals of the terrorists are, in my view several: * Striking installations of great symbolic importance, instead of key strategic relevance, is partly due to the 'limited' scope of the attack, due to the limited strike capacity of the attackers. The entity behind these attacks does not have the resources to, nor the desire, to overtake the US. Therefore these 'symbolic' targets were chosen. * If indeed it is Osama Bin Laden or indeed any other Islamic fundamentalist extremists, their goal have been to take power. How so? In a world with increased globalisation, the values and society structure of Islamic fundamentalist are increasingly challenged. Western goods and media penetrate the minds of the people of Muslim countries, to the great fear and anger of the Islamic fundamentalists in power. In order to claim power, they must first get rid of Western values and thinking in the minds of those they seek to rule. That is done via terrorist acts especially designed to make the US ‘clam-up’, that is, have western and especially American interest pull out of Muslim countries around the world. What the Islamic fundamentalist extremists are literally saying is “Leave us alone, you are corrupting our society; your values are against the word of Allah”. If the Islamic fundamentalist extremists views are spoken unchallenged in their societies, they will much easier gain power. * For the terrorists this is a display of power internally as well. In many, many Muslim countries there are an ongoing battle, or even civil wars, between moderate Islamite’s who are, not western friendly, but ‘western accepting’ and the Islamic fundamentalist. The Islamic fundamentalists thrive in times of great distress: War, hunger, terror… Historically it has proven itself true. Just look at Afghanistan, Palestine, Sudan, Algeria, Egypt, Iran – the list is endless. Islamic fundamentalist extremists know this, therefore they strive for war, hunger and terror. They see it as a path to Islamic rule, and themselves as mere ‘tools’ performing acts of atrocity that, in their view, is the will of Good. posted by Claus Eggers Sørensen 4:37 PM |
| its just mental mental mental. Whatever the reasons, whatever the arguments, the one thing that remains throughout is the horror of violence - it just ends up generating more violence. I hope that something of this magnitude may be shocking enough to get people out of the tit for tat (which on this scale concerns us all) attacks which perpetuate violence but i fear it won't. I heard one report yesterday that suggested Israel have upped their military presence at key positons in the hope that they will be able to 'take advantage' of the current anti terrorism feeling (they feel their problem is one of terrorism and not conflict) - I hope that that is just media speculation, I really do - there is no advantage to be taken from this unless it reduces violence. You can only hope that whatever happens next, people try and keep their heads and that the opinions of the world are heeded. Whatever it is that does happen and at whatever magnitude it occurs, I doubt will ever fill in the holes for the real victims which is where my thoughts and sympathies lie. Try and stay positive one and all. posted by Paul Sherlock 2:17 PM |
what stopped them crashing into nuclear installations posted by Anthony Manning 11:09 AM |
| Tuesday, September 11, 2001 |
| TO ALL BLOGDIALIAN's: let's keep the news channels open and use our resource to PEACE AND LOVE AND TRUTH TO YOU ALL posted by john burke 11:46 PM |
| this is horrible. My sympathies to all involved. More info at these sites: This is bad. posted by Mikkel Eriksen 8:26 PM |
| my thoughts are with you all as well during this time. love one another and there is room for us all. peace posted by john burke 4:26 PM |
| Oh no. My thoughts to out to the victims and their family's, and to the well-being of the world. Violence, killings and war is not the way. The middle-east tension has been ignored for too lang. These people have nothing to loose - if it is them? As for now I can't be shure. This is truly a tragedy for all people in the world. All those who have said nothing, tough they knew about the situation in Palestine. Biased and blind media. I don't know if it is Palestinian terrorists. If it is, the world shurely should have involved itself in that conflict in a very more pragmatic way. I can't say I knew this was comming, but now it's here. Let this be an eye-opener for all the people of the earth, a cry for peacefull action not war. posted by Claus Eggers Sørensen 4:07 PM |
